THE ETERNAL DEBATE

Messi or Ronaldo, Ronaldo or Messi? We all know about the never ending comparisons between Messi and Ronaldo, one of the biggest questions in football history, but should it really even be a debate? I deeply believe it shouldn't, so today I'm gonna try my best to debunk some of the most common arguments in favor of Cristiano Ronaldo, against Lionel Messi.

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CRISTIANO RONALDO IS THE BETTER GOALSCORER

Cristiano Ronaldo is an absolute goal machine and has more goals in his career than Lionel Messi. But let's take a deeper look into it.

ALL GOALS:

Messi - 604 in 751 (0.8);

Cristiano - 649 in 902 (0.72).

CLUB GOALS:

Messi - 543 in 628 (0.86);

Cristiano - 568 in 753 (0.75).

INTERNATIONAL GOALS:

Messi - 61 in 123 (0.5);

Cristiano - 81 in 149 (0.54).

LEAGUE GOALS:

Messi - 375 in 411 (0.91);

Cristiano - 394 in 509 (0.77).

GOALS SINCE RONALDO'S MOVE TO SPAIN (LA LIGA):

Messi - 463 (321);

Cristiano - 445 (307).

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE GOALS:

Messi - 100 in 124 (0.81);

Cristiano - 119 in 154 (0.77).

OTHER

(Copa del Rey, Spanish Supercup, FA Cup, League Cup, Community Shield, Club World Cup, UEFA Supercup):

Messi - 68 in 93 (0.73);

Cristiano - 54 in 89 (0,61).

Messi has a better goalscoring ratio in every category except international goals, but what about when they were at their best, goalscoring wise?

MOST GOALS IN A SEASON:

Messi - 73 in 60 (1,22) (2011/12);

Cristiano - 61 in 54 (1,12) (2014/15).

MOST GOALS IN A CALENDAR YEAR:

Messi - 91 in 69 (1,31) (2012);

Cristiano - 69 in 59 (1,16) (2013).

Okay, but Cristiano's shots are said to be much more lethal than Messi's and he's a bigger threat from outside of the box, right? Here are their conversion rates since Ronaldo's move to Spain.

TOTAL CONVERSION RATE:

Messi - 22%;

Cristiano - 15%.

CONVERSION RATE FROM OUTSIDE OF THE BOX:

Messi - 11%;

Cristiano - 4%.

Alright, but Cristiano is still a much more decisive player and he works well under pressure, when his team needs him... right? Let's take a look.

CONVERSION RATE WHEN THEIR TEAM IS WINNING:

Messi - 23%;

Cristiano - 25%.

CONVERSION RATE WHEN THEIR TEAM IS DRAWING/LOSING:

Messi - 21%;

Cristiano - 5%.

As you can see, Messi's conversion rate drops almost unnoticeably when his team isn't in a favored position, while Ronaldo's drops drastically.

And how about GOALS IN FINALS?

Messi - 27 in 26 (1,03);

Cristiano - 18 in 23 (0,78).

Now, let's take a deeper look into their goals.

GOALS AFTER ONE DRIBBLE:

Messi - 122;

Cristiano - 48.

GOALS AFTER TWO DRIBBLES:

Messi - 41;

Cristiano - 11.

GOALS AFTER THREE DRIBBLES:

Messi - 15;

Cristiano - 2.

GOALS AFTER FOUR OR MORE DRIBBLES:

Messi - 4;

Cristiano - 0.

And how many times have they delivered the so-called 'pass before the assist' to latch onto the end of it? Let's see.

PRE-ASSISTED GOALS:

Messi - 98 (16%);

Cristiano - 14 (0.2%).

And who's the better provider?

ALL-TIME ASSISTS:

Messi - 247 in 751 (0,32);

Cristiano - 208 in 902 (0,23).

So basically, Messi has been directly involved in more goals than he's played games. He's been directly involved in 851 goals in 751 games, 100 more goals than games or 1,13 goals per game. Cristiano has been directly involved in 857 goals in 902 games or 0,95 goals per game.

What about when they were at their best, assist wise?

MOST ASSISTS IN A SEASON:

Messi - 29 in 60 (0,48) (2011/12)

Cristiano - 21 in 54 (0,39) (2014/15)

MOST ASSISTS IN A CALENDAR YEAR:

Messi - 36 in 70 (0,52) (2011);

Cristiano - 20 in 60 (0,33) (2014).

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CRISTIANO IS THE BETTER FREE KICK TAKER

Another thing Cristiano's fans love to mention is that the Portuguese is a better free kick taker than his Argentine counterpart, and yes, he used to be the better one at it. Not only that, he also used to be the best free kick taker in Europe, but let's face it, those days are long gone.

When we look at their all-time numbers, Cristiano has a big advantage over Messi.

ALL-TIME FREE KICKS:

Messi - 39;

Cristiano - 60.

But, let's see their numbers since 2009/10, Cristiano's first season in Spain.

FREE KICKS SINCE 09/10:

Messi - 38 (Approx. 250 takes), (Approx. 15% success);

Cristiano - 41 (Approx. 375 takes), (Approx, 10% success).

Cristiano still has more, but the difference has dropped. Let's see their more recent numbers.

FREE KICKS SINCE 15/16:

Messi - 21;

Cristiano - 8.

Even more recent?

FREE KICKS IN 2018:

Messi - 5;

Cristiano - 0.

Ronaldo fans, you need to update your arguments.

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MESSI WOULD FLOP IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE

Probably the worst of the bunch. "Messi would flop in the Premier League" is an extremely flawed argument because it's completely based on a guess. Is it factual, has it happened? No.

So, how can we, at least, come close to putting this theory to the test? We can take a look at Messi's performances against English sides in the Champions League.

MESSI'S UCL GOALS AGAINST PREMIER LEAGUE SIDES:

20 in 28 (0.72).

9 Goals vs Arsenal;

6 Goals vs Manchester City;

3 Goals vs Chelsea;

2 Goals vs Manchester United.

Let's see how many goals Cristiano, who has spent quite a while in England, has scored against these teams.

CRISTIANO'S GOALS AGAINST SELECTED ENGLISH TEAMS (ALL COMPS):

5 vs Arsenal, 5 vs Manchester City, 2 vs Manchester United, 1 vs Chelsea.

But yes, I'm sure Messi couldn't do it on a cold wet night at Stoke.

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CRISTIANO CAN SCORE HEADERS

Yes, Cristiano Ronaldo, who is 187cm tall (6'2) is better at scoring headers than Lionel Messi, who is 170cm tall (5'7). What a surprise.

This part of the game naturally belongs to Cristiano, there's no denying that his aerial presence and his heading ability are lethal, but it surely isn't enough to give him the title for the greatest ever, is it?

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CRISTIANO CAN SCORE PENALTIES

Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the best penalty takers in the world, while his counterpart struggles with them quite a bit. Let's see their spot-kick numbers.

PENALTY GOALS:

Messi - 77 (23 Missed), (77%);

Cristiano - 102 (21 Missed), (82%).

Cristiano is clearly much better than Messi at penalties, but that means that Messi has scored more non-penalty goals in his career than the Portuguese has, making it look, even more, like Messi is the better goalscorer.

Penalties are 15% of all Cristiano Ronaldo's goals, 12% of Lionel Messi's.

Let's see how many non-penalty goals they have.

NON-PENALTY GOALS:

Messi - 527 in 751 (0.7);

Cristiano - 547 in 902 (0.6).

But how do Messi and Ronaldo deal with penalties in shootouts?

PENALTIES IN SHOOTOUTS:

Messi - 4 (1 Missed), (80%);

Cristiano - 6 (2 Missed), (75%).

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CRISTIANO RONALDO IS THE KING OF THE UCL

Cristiano Ronaldo has the most goals, most assists and most hat-tricks (or so they love to say) in the history of the most prestigious club competition in world football, let's take a look.

GOALS IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE:

Messi - 100 in 124 (0.81);

Cristiano - 119 in 154 (0.77).

ASSISTS IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE:

Messi - 27 in 124 (0.21);

Cristiano - 39 in 154 (0.25).

GOALS + ASSISTS IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE:

Messi - 127 in 124 (1,02);

Cristiano - 158 in 154 (1,02).

HAT-TRICKS IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE:

Messi - 7; Cristiano - 7.

Need I mention the 'incredible' double offside hat-trick vs Bayern Munich? I will. And another thing worth mentioning is that Ronaldo fans gave him most (if not all) the credit for the title in 2016 because he scored the final penalty in the shootout, after 120 minutes of being nowhere to be found. Not to mention the fact that Madrid scored an offside goal in that final to go 1-0 up against their city rivals.

And now, lots of Ronaldo fans are claiming that his bicycle kick goal against Juventus (2017/18 QF, 1st Leg) is the greatest goal in the history of the competition. What? Have you ever seen Zidane's volley? Bressen's insane overhead? I'm sure you've seen Messi's and Mandzukic's goals against Madrid. The goal against Juve was fantastic, it was insane, no one's denying it, but it's nowhere near the best ever, it's not even the best of his own! And some people are even going as far as to say the greatest goal in the history of the game, which just capitalizes on their bias.

And why not add the fact that Messi is one of the only two players to have scored 5 goals in a single Champions League match? He's done so against Bayer Leverkusen, back in 2011/12 (The other one is Luiz Adriano, in 2014/15 against BATE Borisov). Although they have both scored 4 goals in a single UCL game once, Messi vs Arsenal in 2009/10 and Cristiano vs Malmö in 2015/16.

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MESSI DOESN'T PERFORM WITH ARGENTINA

This is one of those ol' reliable ones for Ronaldo fans (who don't even watch Argentina matches) when they don't have much else to say. Since some people don't want to watch the games and see for themselves that he does perform for Argentina, and incredibly so, let's look at the facts and statistics.

Messi is the TOP SCORER for Argentina, TOP SCORER IN WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS for them, TOP ASSIT MAKER, Only player to score against all South American Nations.

Seeing that Messi 'doesn't perform' in his National Team, it means he doesn't really have much influence on their games and how they play, right?

Let's see what the stats say, let's see how Argentina play with and without the one and only and then we'll move on to the comparisons between the Argentine and the Portuguese.

The following stat is from World Cup Qualifiers for Brazil 2014 and Russia 2018.

ARGENTINA'S WIN PERCENTAGE:

With Messi - 72%;

Without Messi - 19%.

It doesn't get much simpler than this, does it?

Now, the comparisons.

INTERNATIONAL GOALS:

Messi - 61 in 123 (0.5);

Cristiano - 81 in 149 (0.54).

INTERNATIONAL ASSISTS:

Messi - 37 in 123 (0.3);

Cristiano - 27 in 149 (0.18).

TOTAL:

Messi - 98 in 123 (0.79);

Cristiano - 108 in 149 (0.72).

We can see who the more influential player is, even just by looking at the stats, but let's take a look at who they love scoring against the most.

FAVORITE INTERNATIONAL VICTIMS:

Messi - Brazil. Uruguay, Venezuela, Ecuador, Paraguay (4);

Cristiano - Sweden, Andorra, Latvia, Armenia (5).

And how often do they score against the big National Teams?

Messi - Brazil, Uruguay (4), Colombia, Chile (3), Spain (2), Portugal, Germany, France (1);

Cristiano - Belgium (3), The Netherlands (2), Poland, Argentina (1).

It has to be said, though, that Cristiano has more goals for the NT in his best year than Messi has, 13 compared to the Argentine's 12, and holds the record for most World Cup Qualifier goals ever - 30, compared to Messi's 21.

But how do they compare in International Competitions?

WORLD CUP GOALS + ASSISTS:

Messi - 5 + 3 in 15 (0,33 and 0,2);

Cristiano - 3 + 2 in 13 (0.23 and 0.15).

EURO/COPA AMERICA GOALS + ASSISTS:

Messi - 8 + 11 in 20 (0.4 and 0.55);

Cristiano - 9 + 4 in 21 (0.42 and 0.19).

Messi has been directly involved in 19 goals in 20 games in Copa America, giving him a rate of 0.95 compared to Ronaldo's 0.61 in the EUROs.

Taking it all into account, Messi has been directly involved in 27 goals in 34 competitive games for Argentina (0.77) compared to Ronaldo's 18 in 35 (0.53).

Also, I often hear the "Messi didn't even score in South Africa" thing. Umm... Cristiano scored just once... against North Korea... when Portugal was already 6-0 up. Other than that, they both had an assist and a MOTM award each.

As for the next World Cup, Brazil, there's that wonderful argument about how "Messi only scored in the group stages". Yes, and so did Cristiano. The difference? The difference is that Messi's goals helped Argentina to proceed to the knockout phases and they really were crucial goals:

1 goal in the 2-1 victory over Bosnia (1-1 D without his goal);

1 in the victory over Iran, and we all know how and when he scored it (0-0 D);

2 in the 3-2 victory over Nigeria (1-2 L).

So he scored 4 goals and got 3 MOTM awards in 3 games, while Cristiano scored 1 goal (in the final group game, when they were already out) and provided 1 assist, getting 1 MOTM award, and you have the guts to say Messi is the one who underperformed there?

Messi's team made it to the final, he got another MOTM award in the knockout phase and deservedly was named the POTT.

Then, Copa America 2015.

"Messi only scored once"

Yes, and he was chosen as the POTT (which he refused), provided 3 assists, got 3 MOTM awards, lead his team to the final and then was the only one to score in the shootout, no one bats an eye on that, but everyone loves talking about how he missed his penalty (and wasn't the only one) a year later in the same fixture.

Looking back at the Copa Centenario (2016), Messi got 5 goals and 4 assists in 5 games (2 of which he started on the bench), giving him a direct goal involvement (dgi) every 41 minutes, compared to Cristiano's dgi every 126 minutes in the EUROs, which his team won with him watching from the bench in the final. Messi also scored a 19-minute hat-trick as a sub and broke the Argentina top scorer record with a Puskas nominated goal in the CA.

In the World Cup Qualifiers (Russia 2018), Argentina were struggling and Messi was the scapegoat.

But let's see the stats:

ARGENTINA WITHOUT MESSI - 1W, 4D, 3L, (12% Wins, 37% Defeats);

ARGENTINA WITH MESSI - 6W, 3D, 1L, (60% Wins, 10% Defeats).

+ Messi scored in big games such as: Uruguay (1-0), Chile (1-0), Colombia (+2 assists) (3-0) and as we all know, singlehandedly beat Ecuador with a hat-trick to secure the World Cup qualification for his country.

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MESSI HAS NO INTERNATIONAL TROPHIES

It's true, Messi doesn't have any major international trophies with his country, the only ones he does have are the U20 World Cup and the Olympic Trophy and he was named as one of the standout players of the tournament, but he's been to 4 major finals and lost 2 of them on penalty shootouts, Let's move the one where he himself missed a penalty (Copa America 2016) to the side and look at the one where he was the only one to score, Copa America 2015. He was the first one to take a penalty, as a real leader does, and he scored. That's where his contribution to the game ends, now it's all on his teammates. Tell me this, if they had scored, would that have made Messi a bigger and better player?

Just a few years ago, Cristiano was on the list of players who have 0 international trophies as well. He played a fairly average tournament at the EUROs of 2016 and he got injured in the final. At the moment he was substituted out of the game, that's where his contribution to the game ends, now it's all on his teammates. Eder scored, Portugal won as a team and Cristiano got all the glory.

But, who's got more club trophies?

CLUB TROPHIES:

LA LIGA

Messi 8 - 2 Ronaldo

PREMIER LEAGUE

Messi 0 - 3 Ronaldo

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

Messi 4 - 4 Ronaldo

COPA DEL REY / FA CUP

Messi 5 - 3 Ronaldo

UEFA SUPERCUP

Messi 3 - 3 Ronaldo

SUPERCOPA DE ESPAÑA / COMMUNITY SHIELD

Messi 7 - 5 Ronaldo

FIFA CLUB WORLD CUP

Messi 3 - 4 Ronaldo

CAPITAL ONE CUP

Messi 0 - 2 Ronaldo

TOTAL:

Messi 31 - 27 Ronaldo

This includes two trebles and a sextuple for Messi with Barcelona.

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CRISTIANO HAS MORE INDIVIDUAL AWARDS

BALLON D'OR

Messi 5 - 5 Ronaldo

FIFA THE BEST

Messi 0 - 2 Ronaldo

UEFA BEST PLAYER IN EUROPE

Messi 3 - 4 Ronaldo

FIFA WORLD PLAYER

Messi 1 - 1 Ronaldo

WORLD CUP GOLDEN BALL

Messi 1 - 0 Ronaldo

ONZE D'OR

Messi 3 - 2 Ronaldo

GOLDEN BOY

Messi 2 - 1 Ronaldo

COPA AMERICA / EURO PLAYER OF THE TOURNAMENT

Messi 1 - 0 Ronaldo

NATIONAL LEAGUE TOP SCORER

Messi 4 - 4 Ronaldo

GOLDEN BOOT

Messi 4 - 4 Ronaldo

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE TOP SCORER

Messi 5 - 6 Ronaldo

FIFA PUSKAS AWARD

Messi 0 - 1 Ronaldo

IFFHS BEST PLAYMAKER

Messi 3 - 0 Ronaldo

TOTAL

Messi 32 - 30 Ronaldo

Umm... who has more individual awards?

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Lots of people fail to realize (or they realize it but just put it to the side) that Cristiano has bigger numbers only due to his age, he's (5.2.1985.) two and a half years, or exactly 869 days, older than the little Argentine (24.6.1987.). Statistics are the only thing keeping Cristiano alive in these 'Messi v Ronaldo' talks, and now we see that not even the numbers are on his side.

But the main thing that these Ronaldo fans don't seem to know is that even if Cristiano had the better ratios, the better numbers (which isn't the case), he would still be miles and miles below and behind Lionel Messi, who could stop scoring for the rest of his career and still be the greatest ever. Yes, the thing that wins you games in football are goals, but if you don't have anyone to create them, how will you get them? Besides, the beauty in football, the beauty in the beautiful game is what's on the pitch, not what's on the papers and the stat boards, and if we look at what players do on the pitch, no one has ever done it, and most likely no one ever will, better than Lionel Andres Messi.

FC Barca Logic